LEILA FADEL, HOST:
For more, let's bring in Senator Tim Kaine. He's a Virginia Democrat who serves on the armed services, foreign relations and budget committee.
Senator, good morning.
TIM KAINE: Morning, Leila. Thanks.
FADEL: You have repeatedly tried to reassert the power of Congress to declare war, but your War Powers Resolution failed. And now the president is threatening to target Iran's power plants and bridges. And as with all military action in this war, that would be without congressional authorization if he followed through. As the law currently stands, does it give the president the right to make good on that threat?
KAINE: No, the president is waging an illegal war that's also an unwise one. We're not supposed to be at war without a vote of Congress. My congressional colleagues thus far have chosen to hide under their desks, but I think they are starting to get very, very concerned. We see more colleagues coming out and questioning the president's decision to start a war with no plan, no rationale and no support from the public or our allies. And so I will force another vote, basically saying no war against Iran without a vote of Congress, and we will likely have that vote next week.
FADEL: You think you'll get the Republican votes on that?
KAINE: I've been able to get one Republican vote so far, and earlier votes, for example, against Venezuela, I've been able to get up to five. I do think the growing disquiet that our constituents are communicating to our offices will lead me to get more Republican support. But we'll see. I control my own vote. I don't control any others, but I am going to strongly stand for the proposition we shouldn't be in an illegal war.
FADEL: It's been over a month now that this war has been going on. And I just want to ask you about what the president is doing and what Congress is actually doing right now. I mean, the War Powers Resolution of 1973, doesn't that give the president 60 days before he has to seek congressional authorization? That means he has just under a month to keep going?
KAINE: That actually is not what the statute does. First, the Constitution is clear - a president cannot take us to war without a vote of Congress. That's - now, a president can defend the nation against incoming attack without asking for permission. So the War Powers Resolution, the way to read it is, if a president has to take the kind of unilateral action, defending the nation, for example, without coming to Congress, the president can do that for 60 days, constitutionally, but then, according to the statute, has to come back to Congress to seek permission.
FADEL: Now, your Republican colleagues are reading it differently. Like, we heard Republican Senator John Curtis of Utah say he would not support the war after the 60-day window, which would give the president, as I said, less than a month to get approval or wrap this war up. He wrote, it would be an act of disrespect to our Constitution if we were to accord the president the right to make war without any declaration of war.
KAINE: I was very heartened by that. Even though he reads the provision differently than me, if Republican colleagues will stand up at Day 60 and say, Mr. President, you now have to stop because you don't have congressional authorization, I would be very heartened by that demonstration of backbone, and I hope we'll see it.
FADEL: You know, as we heard from Mara Liasson there, the president is making these threats. He spoke to ABC of blowing up the whole country if Iran doesn't open the Strait of Hormuz. He's repeatedly threatened to bomb civilian infrastructure, which would be in contravention of the Geneva Conventions and could be war crimes. Are there any constraints right now on the president in this war?
KAINE: Congress and the American public. The American public deeply disapproves of this war. And I hope that Congress will stand up against a president who's using profanities on Easter Sunday to threaten war crimes against civilians. We've already seen the death of about 1,300 civilians in Iran, including these schoolchildren when the U.S. hit an elementary school. And for a president to say the normal rules of engagement don't apply to me - Secretary Hegseth called them stupid - to promise death from the air, to say there will be no mercy, no quarter, President Trump is shredding a reputation that America has gained for being a diplomatic nation. We gained it first when Teddy Roosevelt brokered the end of the Russo-Japanese War and won the Nobel Prize in 1906. We've built rules that have kept the U.S. and other nations safe. And for the president now to be tearing that up and consigning us to a bully nation rather than a values nation is a tragedy. And I hope some of my colleagues will finally stand up against it.
FADEL: Democratic Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia. Thank you for your time.
KAINE: Absolutely. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
