JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Two federal judges today ruled that it is unlawful for the Trump administration to suspend SNAP food benefits tomorrow, but it's still not clear when that food aid will get to the millions of people who rely on it. One judge gave the administration until Monday to come up with a plan. NPR's Jennifer Ludden joins us now. Hi there.
JENNIFER LUDDEN, BYLINE: Hi.
SUMMERS: So, Jennifer, this dispute over SNAP benefits has really raised the stakes of the shutdown. So can you just start by reminding us what's really at the center of the fight over benefits and what these decisions mean?
LUDDEN: Sure. So the Trump administration had said a week ago there was not enough money for November payments of SNAP. That's the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program. And it said it had no legal authority to tap contingency funds for that. Judge Indira Talwani in Boston did not buy that at all. She says the administration must use that money to keep the country's largest antihunger program going. And in fact, she said they could also tap a larger amount in customs revenue, though she's leaving it up to the administration to decide if they'll do that. So there are still questions here, but one of the Democrats who brought this challenge, New York Attorney General Letitia James, called it a major victory and said we'll continue our lawsuit.
SUMMERS: But what does this mean for people who would normally receive their monthly SNAP benefit tomorrow?
LUDDEN: They are not going to get that federal money for now. There will be a lapse in funding, and we really don't know for how long. The Trump administration might offer a timeline on Monday. That's the judge's deadline for the government to say whether it plans to pay only partial benefits using its contingency funds, which do fall short of SNAP's normal monthly budget. The administration has said that calculating partial payments is a logistical nightmare, that it might take weeks. Now, Judge Talwani did acknowledge people will be harmed by this lapse in funding. And she noted it's the first time this has ever happened in the program's 60-year history. But she said it is possible to make people whole retroactively with future payments. And so because of that, she actually rejected the Democratic states' claims that this was irreparable harm.
SUMMERS: Got it. OK. And there's a second judge in a separate case who also found that pausing SNAP was illegal today. What more can you tell us about that case?
LUDDEN: It was brought in Rhode Island by eight U.S. cities, along with nonprofits and business groups. They argued that ending SNAP payments would harm not only people, but also local economies, including small businesses that rely on grocery sales from shoppers using SNAP. Now, that judge did issue a temporary restraining order, so we'll have to see how both of these play out and whether the Trump administration appeals. I did not get an immediate response from the Agriculture Department, which administers SNAP, - allowed that after the rulings today, President Trump posted that he's instructed his lawyers to ask the court to clarify how they could legally fund SNAP, and if it does, it would be my honor, he said.
SUMMERS: So then where does this leave states and cities that have been ramping up to try and help to fill the gap of this missing food aid?
LUDDEN: That help is certainly still needed for now. Two-thirds of SNAP recipients are seniors, children or they have a disability. Many do work. Their incomes, though, are very low. You know, local officials are worried about people choosing between food and rent or medication. Some are shifting funds to help fill a gap. They're stepping up food donations or allowing flexibility if people fall behind in their bills. Again, it's just not clear how long this pause is going to last.
SUMMERS: Last thing - I mean, we're focused on SNAP benefits because it affects so many people, but are there other safety net programs being hit as the shutdown continues?
LUDDEN: Absolutely. Also, as of tomorrow, 65,000 children may lose access to early education through Head Start. There's a different nutrition program called WIC for pregnant women and new parents. That's running out of money or will soon in many places, and heating aid for millions of people is also at risk in November. So some families could be facing, you know, a double or triple whammy.
SUMMERS: NPR's Jennifer Ludden. Thank you.
LUDDEN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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